SPEAKER_03: 0:00

Yeah, you know, we're carrying everything, but where do we have the space to just offload the things we need to offload? We don't always need our problems to be fixed. Oftentimes, we just need to be heard, but...

SPEAKER_00: 0:17

Greetings and welcome to another episode of Naturally You Radio. My name is Leah Salmon, the Naturally You coach. And today on Naturally You Radio, I am joined by a lady who is lovely and who I love and who I've known for a very long time. And we actually recorded a whole podcast. I'm not even sure where it is right now. But we recorded a whole podcast previously. But I think we've both grown a lot since then. we recorded it. So I think now is a really good time for us to reconnect and for me to introduce you to her work. So welcome to our podcast, Naa. Could you introduce yourself to our ladies, let everybody know who you are, what you do, and then we can take it from there.

SPEAKER_03: 1:06

Okay, wonderful. Thank you, Leah. First and foremost, thank you for having me back. It's lovely to reconnect with you after all the time. So officially, I am Na Amele Asante Amar. Some of you who have walked with me for a long time would remember my first name is Angela, but I've relocated to Ghana since 2020. So I'm using my Ghanaian name, which is Na or Na Amele. I am a divorced mother of two sons, age 14 and 11. I am an employment lawyer by profession So I've specialised employment law for over 20 years or so. But now what I do is I assist UK employees online to navigate employment disputes with their employers. So I literally help them work out how do they go through the tribunal process. So that's how I'm using that aspect. The other aspect of me and my business is as an intuitive life coach, primarily for black women, mothers, because I'm a mother as well, but I deal with women who are not mothers as well. And out of that business I have some other platforms where I've just really helped women, especially women in our community, improve their emotional well-being, as well as trying to redefine or identify their goals for life and how they're moving forward with those things. So that's the whistle-stop tour. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00: 2:24

Before we get started, actually, initially, just because I know people kind of start the Googling process right now, how can people find you and the work that you do?

SPEAKER_03: 2:34

Okay, so you can either find me on Instagram at Na Amele for President, another goal that I'm working towards to become the President of Ghana, but Na Amele for President, or even at, we'll get into that, at Black Women Venting Room on Instagram. That's the easiest way to connect with me and see a bit about what I do. Thank you. So

SPEAKER_00: 2:57

it's the Black Women Venting bits that... as well as everything else. But that's the bit that I wanted to focus on because, again, the goal of the podcast is for me to highlight as many Black women and experts and teachers that I know in my network and beyond who can support the Black women that are in our Naturally You community to understand why their health is where it is and to access the tools and the support and the guidance that they can use to promote their own health. And I have seen the work that you do as a, you know, the space that you've created on venting now. Honestly, I have, I don't really have a positive, I think personally, I know the benefit of venting.

SPEAKER_01: 3:55

But

SPEAKER_00: 3:56

I think that name is triggering for some people. And I have heard people say that there's no point in venting. Venting isn't good. I'm not gonna sit there and just listen to someone vent. Venting isn't productive. Venting isn't good for you. Venting is just focusing on negativity. And I've never actually seen it like that. I've always seen it as like a vent on any piece of machinery is the opening that releases the pressure so that the pressure doesn't build up and cause damage. So when we've been, and especially as black women who are told we're too loud and we're too aggressive and all these kinds of things, having a safe space, a safe non-judgmental space to be able to release the anger, the frustration, the disappointment and all those kinds of things, and it lands somewhere safe, I think is an amazing idea. So for those who don't think it's a good idea and for those who, you know, who I've spoken to that feel like venting is just like negative and I don't want to hear someone vent, can you share why you started the venting space and your ideas and also what you found, you know, how people have benefited from the space that you've created? Sure, I'd be

SPEAKER_03: 5:25

glad to. So me getting to in that space all stemmed from a post a sister made about basically the narrative of the strong black woman. And so following that, we had a conversation about, yeah, you know, we're carrying everything, but where do we have the space to just offload the things we need to offload? We don't always need our problems to be fixed. Oftentimes we just need to be heard. But a lot of the experiences that I've, I've not had so much, but sisters have, you know, black women have is that, you share something very personal with somebody, and then unbeknownst to you, somewhere down the line, someone will come back and slap you in the face with it. And that was not the whole point of sharing. So it kind of turned into a personal thing for me, where as naturally, for some reason, my coping mechanism is that I sit on certain emotions. It takes me a while for me to figure out that I'm angry. So when you don't know me and I'm not in a good space, you will feel my passive aggression. And I've had to work through that because it really is not pleasant for other people. So the venting, I love how you described it. Like I get the whole vent like to release. I love how you describe that. Not many people describe it like that, but yeah, a vent, something through which something must pass. And so oftentimes people will think that the venting is negative because they assimilate or they, you know, take venting for ranting which you can just get like having a rant like you're just being angry you're just being aggressive you're complaining what's the point that thing what's the point the point is the whole point of having this space is for us to honor our feelings and emotions which are valid so that they can move on and we can get on with the rest of our lives like do other things so it is acknowledging that our emotions make us human they all have a purpose they actually come to to give us information, you know, when we're ready to receive them. It's like, if you're angry, you didn't just wake up and decide to be angry. Somebody has crossed a boundary somewhere. What is that? You know, they'll say that under anger, there's something, as you know, there's something underneath anger, you know, is telling us where something in our realm is not sitting well. That's for the negative emotions. But the happy, for the positive emotions, we never question those because we always love to have positive ones. And the funny thing about that is that even with, if you're like, We can experience positive things, but they can cause negative experience because we actually don't have a space to share the positive things. So one of the things that's been shared to me in the past in the venting space is, for example, you've achieved something. You wrote that book that you didn't think you could read. You know, you started that business, the book you didn't think you could write, that you started that business. You've achieved something. And sisters will come and tell me that, oh, yeah, they've not actually shared or they've not celebrated it with because They have people in their circle that probably question, well, why did you do that? Why didn't you just go and invest your money in something else? Oh, you've got a family, your responsibilities. You're like all this other stuff. And it then just shrouds their moment of joy in all this negativity. So the main purpose of the venting space is, yes, for us to be able to express our feelings, our emotions about whatever lived experiences that we have had, personal experiences free from Criticism, judgment, and ridicule. So the rule in that space is that no one is allowed to challenge your feelings. Your emotions are sovereign, right? Because unless they lived the experience, they don't know how you... went through that so even if someone could say well factually that couldn't happen that doesn't change the feeling that it evokes so nobody but nobody gets to challenge your feelings or your emotions so they are sovereign and so um and nobody's allowed to say you should or should not feel because like i said um It's not a debate space. I tell people straight up, this is not the place for, oh, this is right and this is wrong. It's not a debate space. It's a repository. That's what I say. It's a place for us to put our experiences and what that is doing and is beautifully done for us as sisters in that space is it is teaching us to listen to each other without criticizing each other. Even

SPEAKER_01: 9:53

if

SPEAKER_03: 9:53

a woman has had an experience that, you could never even fathom like ever have having you just like oh wow i didn't even know that that existed so you can just take that on and because you don't have to you don't have to you're not the judge or the arbiter we can just receive that we don't have to do anything with it but it really expands our um if you like our database of who we are as sisters wherever we are in the world you know so doing that the whole point of dealing with the emotional and being boosting our emotional well-being is that that has a positive impact on our physical well-being, which I know that you will know. But for the listeners, it's like I often say when we have a physical ailment or something, that is the body's last resort of trying to tell us that now it's something you're not dealing with. Now, can you now listen to me?

SPEAKER_01: 10:48

Because I've tried,

SPEAKER_03: 10:51

you know, so We want to deal with the emotional to clear space so it doesn't turn into some long-term chronic condition. So that's what we're trying to do. And then also when we move the, when we allow our emotions to just be felt, because that's what they need to be do. That's all that's needed. So you may have heard, listeners may have heard, emotions, what are they? They are energy in motions. Energy has to move. Stagnant energy is not good. I don't know anywhere where stagnant energy is good. It is not good. It is stuck. And then when it's stuck, it causes havoc. So our emotions, they just have to be felt. So when you're angry, you know, there's different ways we can get onto that later, different ways in which we can deal with our anger on an emotional level, on a physical level, on a mental level, on a spiritual level. But once we deal with the emotional, guess what? We get clarity of mind. So you can just have a think about the last time you had a dilemma that maybe you were really annoyed or really upset or whatever. And then you either had a good cry or someone spoke to you about it. You're like, ah, that's what I need to do. So that's kind of what it has provided, you know, for sisters. And even the benefits have surprised me because how it is is that not everybody has to speak in that space. You can come every now and again. You can just listen. And I was shocked to find out, because I always ask them, okay, what are your takeaways, whatever. I was shocked to find out the relief that sisters were feeling when they hadn't even shared anything. Like they go into, they listen to what's going on and then they feel lighter. So that was like even an unintended consequence that I didn't even know was happening. But I think it's because a sister will share something and another sister maybe not courageous enough or want to speak, but the other sister is speaking her story. It's like, wow, how is it that this person in this part of this world I've never traveled to, it's like she's telling my life, you know? And then they tell it and then they hear the responses for sisters, which is, you know, supportive, you know? And so we can really get, we get rehumanized in that space. Thinking of all the spaces that we're in that we're told that we're too much, we're too angry, we're too, too, too, too. And in this space, you can just be you. You know, you're allowed to be frail. You're allowed to be, and we don't have to necessarily rebrand, you know, what is it? Vulnerability of strength. If we want to feel frail, you can feel frail. We're allowed to be human. We're allowed to have our, you know, feel that our energy's low right now and you need your sisters to pick you up. So it allows us to feel that wherever we are, because the other common factor is that I tend to have women in these spaces who are kind of leading their own communities outside. So they are the torchbearers for something. And usually when you are the one that's leading, where is your support? So you come here and it's like, right here, I don't have to carry all those other people. I can just be me. I can get support that I need and I'm not alone.

SPEAKER_00: 13:51

Wow. You are doing, I don't believe in God, but you're doing God's work, sis, honestly. You're doing your ancestors' work, do you know what I mean? So, what would you say as an intuitive life coach? Because I understand you facilitate this, but in your own right, you do coaching as well. And everything you've just expressed is amazing. What would you say would be... the long-term impact of someone who either shuts down their own emotions because they don't get this chance to release or their emotions get shut down. So their emotions keep on getting denied. Like, you know, they're vulnerable with someone and then someone pushes that vulnerability back to them, or they're open and honest with someone and someone, you know, tells them they shouldn't feel that way. Or I don't, But, you know, I felt attacked when you said that, but I didn't mean to. Well, why do you feel that? I wasn't. How is that going to impact someone long term when they do try to be vulnerable in the world and or with loved ones or with people that they feel that, you know, maybe they've trusted and it keeps on getting shut down and it keeps on getting pushed back? Because I know that that is a common experience. with sisters, we know that that happens in the medical community where a sister will say I'm in pain and they're told your pain probably isn't that much or in a romantic relationship where what you said hurt me, well, why did it hurt you? Do you know what I mean? Even in a parent-child relationship where you're trying to express something to a child or you're trying to express something to your parent and they're telling you you shouldn't feel like that. What impact is that gonna have on us as black women long-term?

SPEAKER_03: 15:42

Well, I think you're even like an expert to speak about that in the sense that our fibroids, How many of our sisters went to the doctors, you know, as girls, young women or whatever, and told them, and not just fibroids, any of our wound issues, and told them about the pain and they were gaslit. The stories I have heard, it's like, oh, you just have to live with this for the rest of your life. And, oh, you just take this or, you know, have a baby or, you know, take these painkillers. And the thing is, we know that, obviously, if you catch something early, it doesn't have to turn into a whole big thing. But if you leave it there to fester, obviously, then it's going to turn into something that either becomes wholly unmanageable it's going to cost you more time it's going to cost you more money it's going to take you more energy and it's just heartbreaking to see the number of sisters with all these womb issues all over the place and when you hear where the thing started you just think oh my word you know nobody yeah nobody listened to them so in the simple sense it's it will show out in chronic health conditions, you know? And we'll go around the houses, not because we're unintelligent, but the information that we need, thankfully more of it is becoming unavailable because of kind of the work that you do and Sisters in That Space are doing, but it's not always straightforward. So you try and address all these different things, but when it's like that, you're starting on a back foot.

SPEAKER_01: 17:06

because

SPEAKER_03: 17:07

the thing has had a run up, like it's had so long leading time to develop into a problem that's now gonna take a lot longer to solve. So there's the physical side, There's the emotional side where I'll be surprised if you don't, your confidence is not knocked. You don't, your self-esteem doesn't just completely tank and you don't, you have trouble trusting yourself, let alone anybody else. And so, yeah, you can build real trust issues. It's like, I'm not saying anything to anybody. And then when that happens, then it's like, we're back to, okay, I'm alone in this world. I've got to do everything by myself. And we know that doesn't work because that as well, burnout, anxiety, depression, it can lead to... It just leads to us kind of... being reclusive almost like drawing back into our own space leaning only on ourselves and we're not supposed to be here by ourselves like you know we're meant to be about community yes of course it is healthy for us to have solitude absolutely but it's that difference between isn't it that that balance between independence and interdependence like we need to be as well. So over a long period of time, it can just be disastrous, you know, to the real, like to the fatal kind where sisters will just take themselves out or they will develop, I don't know, all kinds of addictions to try and numb the thing that they're really dealing, you know, that they can't deal with.

SPEAKER_01: 18:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 18:40

So have you heard of Gable Mate? Oh, absolutely. Yes. Just checking. That's cool. But yeah, I was listening to his book, The Myth of Normal, and in it he was talking about, and in a lot of interviews, because he shares so freely and openly everywhere. I love this stuff. Yeah. Some of the things that he was saying that really hit rocked me was women are four times more likely to die from holding in their emotions. It's not... it's not that they have a negative emotion. And he was talking about women in marriages and women in long-term relationships are more likely to die, four times more likely to die, not because they're in a bad relationship, but because in that relationship, they're not able to openly express themselves. I met a woman who, One of my clients who was, you know, there was challenges in the relationship. And one thing she said is, I have never had problems with expressing how I feel. I've never had problems with whether people like it or not. I've never had that. And I'm like, I'd love to be like that. I would love to be like that. But yeah, he really does make a big point of encouraging women to not like... not leave every relationship, but learn how to express how you feel and understanding that it may not always be met with kindness. It may not be met with understanding. And I think also there is also the dynamic of whoever you are venting to and releasing or sharing your emotions with, they may take it personally. And if they take it personally, Now it's nothing to do with you and now it's to do with them. And then they're on the defensive and that's going to shut people down as well.

SPEAKER_03: 20:30

Yes. If I can come in just on that point. I did a talk somewhere where I was talking about the power of venting and people were asking me, so how do you vent to someone so as not to trigger them or they get defensive? And I said, ideally... you don't vent to the person who is the subject of the reason why you're feeling that you don't vent to them because it's almost impossible unless they're very well traveled on their journey for them not to take it personally. So you need an out, you need a different space where you just get out all the nasty stuff. When I say the nasty stuff, like it is important that we allow ourselves to be human. There are some things that, it can be a struggle because when you've learned something, sometimes we use that to beat ourselves over the mind, over the head. So for example, negative self-talk and what have you. But for me, there's a way to do negative self-talk where you don't say I am, you don't identify the thing, but you can say, for example, I feel. And you need to have a space where freely, whether on paper, whether, I'll just say that now, whether what I do is I have my close people where we have this accord, we have this agreement where every now and again, if I need to vent, I'm going to send you a voice clip. I will let you know if I need a response or I'll let you know if I need a suggestion or something. So I have friends that will leave me a clear line, I'm just venting. And I always want to make it clear. It's like, do you need me to say anything? Because sometimes they won't, depending how they feel, they might not remember to say that. But like, do you need a response? Or do you just want me to hear you? Sometimes it just needs to be, oh, I hear you. I feel you. That's it. Like,

SPEAKER_01: 22:16

that's all we

SPEAKER_03: 22:17

need. So from that perspective, it's like, don't vent to the person. Don't The number one, the first person that you vent to should not be the person who is involved in the reason why you feel the way you feel. Find someone else, something else. If you have to write it down on paper, if you have to send a WhatsApp voice clip, if you have to take like 20 minutes out on a punching bag, like the energy, first wave of energy has got to move.

SPEAKER_01: 22:45

So

SPEAKER_03: 22:46

you can have a bit of clarity and then even ask yourself, before you're now going to have this conversation with the person, what really is the problem? Because you know that thing they say that, for example, if you're talking in relationships where it's really the straw that broke the camel back. Oh, he keeps leaving his dirty socks all over the place. It's like, that's not the

SPEAKER_01: 23:04

issue.

SPEAKER_03: 23:05

This has been 10 years of me feeling disrespected and unappreciated for all my hard work, that kind of thing. So what really is the issue before you now go to the person and said, yeah, I just needed some time. Because they may see you in the moment where you are livid, however you're feeling, like you're really melancholy. And even something for us to develop is the practice or some mechanism that works for us where we tell the other person, I'm not really in a good space right now. I can't deal with this right now. I will speak to you about it, but it can't be now. I just need time. Because even that, because I've been in a situation before I learned all this stuff where if things are overwhelming to me, I'll just walk away. And obviously that will annoy my partner. So I needed to find the words to be able to communicate. It's like, this is actually too much for me right now. I just, I just need like, time to process and all that and then can we come back and speak about it later you know even that so that person doesn't feel like you're even being dismissive of them yeah

SPEAKER_01: 24:10

you

SPEAKER_03: 24:10

know but it's like you we we need to take responsibility for how to take care of ourselves whilst we're also trying to manage the other person because what's common is what we will do is because we don't want to be rude we don't want to be unkind as when we still want to be compassionate we're trying to still hold the other person when we're the one that needs holding

SPEAKER_01: 24:29

yeah

SPEAKER_03: 24:29

And what I learned from somewhere, I really don't remember the sources, this lesson about only one person gets to share their pain at a time. So if I tell you that you did this thing that annoys me, you don't get to, it's not constructed for you to say, yeah, I did do that, but I did it because you did that thing the other day that really pissed me off. Like, that's not going to work. All we're doing is trading pain. And that's what a lot of us are in. And especially in our relationships, conversation for another time. But, you know, with our brothers, you know, a lot of it is that, well, you did this. Yeah, but you did this. And it's like, who's going to win that situation? I don't think anybody.

SPEAKER_01: 25:09

So,

SPEAKER_03: 25:12

yeah, ideally, you don't vent to that person. You find another space where... um you can be really honest about how you feel even if it's like i feel completely humiliated by this person how could they do that like what were they thinking like you need to allow yourself the freedom to get this stuff out because just because you don't say it it's not going to go away it's still in your head and the unseen is worse you know what the whole thing about what you resist persists what it means is the things that you're avoiding you're just building a ticking time bomb for yourself Cause it will come back and slap you.

SPEAKER_00: 25:52

What would you say? What would you say to people who say that you shouldn't share your business outside? Because there's like, and you know, I'm not, I'm not, commenting on anyone's relationship or the success, everyone's going to be different. But there's a meme and it's a famous couple. And it said, the reason they've been together so long is because they don't let everyone into their business. And I'm like, I know women who have literally lost their lives because they were in such a bad situation that they felt they couldn't tell anyone about because they didn't want to, you know, upset. Even, even, parent-child relationships, to be honest, where when someone doesn't speak up and they do let other people into their business, sorry, yeah, when people don't speak up and nobody else knows about what's going on, that is life-threatening to them. But then you do have, definitely in the Black community, this idea of don't tell everyone our business. And thankfully it is losing its grip, but I know it is still there. I know it's still there and it can be... I feel like one of the things that causes a lot of pressure on women to not express how they feel for the danger of it making someone else look bad or feel bad. What advice would you give to women who are still in that space where they are being told, don't tell everyone your business. If we let people into our business, that's what's going to cause problems for us.

SPEAKER_03: 27:31

What I would ask people to think about is, if we're talking about we can't hold things in, where is it going to go? It has to go somewhere, right? Like literally, it has to go somewhere. So yes, I know that, okay, in the community, it can be frowned upon because quite frankly, people don't want to be embarrassed or ashamed. Like I said, there are genuinely people who will use these things against you, but that is not the reason not to say anything to anyone. It means we must be very discerning about who we tell something to. And in this modern day and age, that meme, to me, I don't know where it came from, but instantly it just takes me to a place. back when, like when our parents, I mean, I know we still have some of them that are still together 50, 60 years, but to me, that's far, far, far, far gone. We're not living in those times now. And I'm not saying I'm all for longevity of our relationships, but we must also adapt. We must also deal with the reality that we are living in. So those things, they may need to look different. You know, they may need to look different. One of the things that I think to a certain extent, maybe we've lost with our modern way of living is actually that our sisterhoods have broken down because we go into either long-term relationships or marriage, the usual expectation is that your circle becomes smaller. I, right or wrong, whatever, controversial, I am not that person who believes or thinks that is healthy that once you're in the long-term relationship you get married that your spouse becomes your everything that other person is a human being you may have god source whoever you worship whatever you may have a higher being that supports that relationship but your spouse is not supposed to replace everybody else and for me the sisters are suffering because actually our main support which is our other sisters we don't have they're not strong we can't trust people we You've been told, oh, your girlfriends, they're always talking nonsense. You know, some of them, which is true, actually, in terms of some of them are jealous of you, as in some of them are jealous of where you've got to. So they will give you advice that is just very dismissive. Oh, you had this argument, leave him. You know, this kind of stuff. So everything in moderation. However, what I'd say is that it is not, it is in no way beneficial for anybody that you do not tell somebody anything. outside but we just need to be discerning of who can that person be and sometimes that person may be somebody that's furthest away from you the person that knows knows least about you that's why i guess you have things like samaritans like a stranger basically because then automatically because they've got less information about you there may be less of a possibility and opportunity and inclination to judge you. It's just, oh, this is what it is. And just think about, I don't know if it's happened to you recently, but just how many times you've been out, whether it's a bus stop, shopping center, whatever it is, and someone just comes and tells you their life story. It needs to go somewhere. It needs to go somewhere. And slightly related is... us as sisters and us as mothers, and this is a personal thing, this is not for everyone. I'm very gifted in that. My mom's still around, even though we're in different countries, my sister's around, but with the advent of WhatsApp and stuff. it's important to me that my sons, they know who their village is. I don't need, I would love them to be able to tell me everything. I don't need them to tell me everything. As long as it's gone to one of our trusted people, that means they've been held. And then my mum can tell me, oh, so they said this, so then we need to decide how to deal with it. They don't have to come and tell me, but they need to have someone they can trust

SPEAKER_01: 31:24

that

SPEAKER_03: 31:24

they will tell so that they are not then led astray by someone that would mean them harm. So I see it as the same thing for our sisters, whether or not you've got children, it's like, you have to have someone, one or two people. And what I usually say in the Venture Room is that, you know, it's great that you're here. I love it and everything. Please create space like this for yourself it doesn't mean you need to go online but where is your safe venting space maybe it's your maybe it's your journal like no judgment but you need somewhere to detox the stuff that's going like get rid of the stuff that's going on so we acknowledge it move on and then we get on with what the things that we need to do

SPEAKER_00: 32:06

thank you for that

SPEAKER_03: 32:08

um

SPEAKER_00: 32:08

There's another sister that we're going to be interviewing, and she taught me this process of emotional freedom or emotional release, where when you are in a challenging situation, you just write, write, write, write, write, write everything down about the whole situation. And it could be something that happened 20 years ago that you're still holding on to. You write everything down and you rip it up and you burn it. or you put it in water somewhere or you just release it. And that process of release, again, there's nobody else involved, but like you've said, you've moved the energy somewhere safe. And another thing you said that was really interesting is that you're setting an example for your children so that I think they won't end up in the situation that a lot of adults are in where they're already seeing you express and share and they're seeing you create spaces where people do talk and there's not a negative connotation around sharing negative feelings and you also want them to know who their village is so that they know who they can safely talk to and this is actually we're recording this i'm not sure when this is going to go live but we're recording this in june and june is men's mental health month and there's so much content thankfully that i've seen on social media where brothers are encouraging other brothers to speak and to talk and to use the tools around them and to release the trope of you know men can't talk and men have to be strong and because like with black women i know for us we've been told we have to be strong and we're too loud and all that kind of stuff. And there's a sister that again, that's coming on who we're gonna interview specifically on that trope with black women have to be strong. But one thing that I do feel and I wanna get your feeling on this as well is sometimes we say that stuff so much, we give it more power than it has. So we say, well, I just have to be strong or I have to do this and I have to do that and you don't know what it's like. I think if we say that too much to ourselves, We are giving it more strength than it needs. And we have the choice to say, I'm not going to be strong. I'm not going to keep it all in. I'm not going to do what everyone thinks. I'm not going to make everyone feel comfortable right now. I'm going to prioritize my own needs. And I think we don't have to uphold all those negative tropes. We have a choice in the matter moving forward. So I would love to hear your feelings and thoughts on that as well.

SPEAKER_03: 34:41

I totally agree. I think with, you know, everything changes over time. So with that whole narrative, I don't know how many people ask, well, where did it come from? And so I like the suggestions where it's like, well, yeah, for me, there's a contrast in everything. So there's positive and negative in everything. But sometimes where we take this narrative from is that, you know, our mothers, our foremothers, you know, our ancestors, you know, in these situations, but we don't always necessarily ask, were they strong by choice or by necessity? Because I think we definitely are the generation or the generations where we're creating the situation where we have a choice as to how much we take on, like you said. There are some of the conversations we may have are like, oh yeah, we can do most things, if not everything. So either you believe we can do everything or we can do most things, but it's like, but do we want to? Yeah, I can run this in a black... So I was like, no, I'm in the area where it's like, no, I could actually do with not working, let's say for six months or do a certain thing for just because... we do it it doesn't mean that we want to do it it doesn't even necessarily that it's positive for us to do it so i agree that absolutely um the words that we speak and how we speak them definitely influences our experience in the same way that depending how you use affirmations if you keep affirming that oh this is it it will you know that's the thing that has most focus in the psyche so it's like oh okay well that will give you that that's the reality that you want You know, so no, I totally, I totally agree with that. And we're talking about our sisters, but yeah, I just resonate as well with what you say with the men. And I think I take on the responsibility because I'm a boy mum. I don't have to have a boy. And I know even for me as a woman, like I said, what my coping mechanism is about not always, discerning that oh i'm feeling like this do you understand so how much more you know my boys who we all have the feminine energy um and you know in this system when we talk about patriarchy but um for me it's not necessarily just about um suppressing the sisters or the women it's about the feminine energy and the emotions are feminine energy as in they are flexible fluid they move they shift they're not rigid and structured like them so it's if we are shut down, our men are definitely going to be shut down. Like, you know, so it's almost like we naturally would take the lead because generalizing, but we will be more inclined obviously with the feminine energy. So I think that's why I do it for me and I do it for them because I would like for them to be able to be more expressive and kind of, you know, practice what we preach as human beings, you know. But for the sisters, yeah, we... we have become used to things being a certain way and no one's going to change it for us. We have to change it for ourselves, like one sister at a time, you know? So we just try our best to do that.

SPEAKER_00: 37:45

Thank you. So, I mean, I do think it's useful to just discuss the dynamic between Black men and Black women or the Black male and the Black female, whether that's you and your sons or me and my brother or me and my father or like romantic relationships, because not to say that every Black woman listening to this is in a relationship with a Black man, but, you know, you may have sons, you may have brothers, you may have uncles. And because... they are close to us, I think it's worth just kind of maybe discussing knowing how to navigate the dynamic between black men and black women and having that understanding of, or how can we nurture an understanding of each other so we don't put more pressure on our relationships than need be. So I like what you said about kind of knowing where, knowing who to share your challenges with. And I think if we put... I think there's a negative... Not negative. I think there's an expectation that's put on us as Black women to have to carry everything, which is unfair. And I think what would maybe be beneficial... And I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, but what might be beneficial is just for Black women to kind of manage their expectations of what they feel the men around them can handle. Because... that can be a source of trauma if you expect someone who is in a negative situation or who maybe isn't even, you know, doesn't even like you that much maybe, or it doesn't feel the same way for you as you do for them. When you put your trust in them and you, you know, share with them and open up to them and then get shut down by them, That can be why you feel you have to close off and that can be the trigger of you not being able to open up. But I don't want women who have maybe got there who are like, well, every time I express to my dad or my uncle or my brother or my husband, I get shut down. So now I've just stopped. What would we say to sisters who are in that situation and who are in that dynamic?

SPEAKER_03: 40:00

So that's really tricky because I think, you know, I also have a black men venting room, but it's different because the men get to vent to us as the sympathetic feminine ear. So it's not just all men. And what I would say, which may be controversial, is actually I've done that for about a year now. And I'm increasingly surprised that the more I hear them speak to us, a lot of them are complaining about venting about the same thing that we sisters are venting about. So what that tells me is what I was saying to you before is that I didn't say like this, but everybody's carrying pain. And we're trying to do this thing about comparing whose pain is worse, you know, and it's not helped by social media, you know, very categorically. Oh, women are this and men are this. I can't stand those things. Like, I'm just like, okay. My question when those things comes up is, okay, let's play devil's advocate. You show me something that says, oh, women, I think the last one I saw, someone had raised a question about, oh, you know, us wearing wigs and makeup and all of this thing. I'm like, okay, so if I accept that all women are like this and it means that we're doing all those things because we've lost our confidence and what have you to know that how does that help you as a black man yeah because you see that's why I can't do this right and wrong thing because it doesn't actually work some people say it's like you can either be right or you could be happy yeah what so what actually are you focused on right so for us this is in that space it can be it's even I feel bad to a certain extent because it's it's almost like still asking you to try and shoulder certain things. But the reason why me personally, I feel more of a responsibility because quite frankly, I think and I'm generalising, but depending on the work that we've done, I feel we actually have more capacity for that if we've really leaned into the feminine energy. And for those of us who are going to the right places, we're going to the places who are able to hold this part of us, so then we can now go and hold the men. Because in that sense, I think they're behind us. If we're in a system where, you know, let's just say that all the women are suppressed of whatever colour, blah, blah, blah, but they're all suppressed, so then any marginalised group, we're going to have to start doing our work right isn't it to speak up to speak out so we've started at that work because we've been feeling that slight for a long time they're just coming to it now where it's like yeah like feminine is rising you lot need to you know get you know kind of get with the program so I can have empathy for that because they're starting later so I personally I don't say I always get it right but I would try and go to the people who I know can hold me which are my sisters, usually. And then I'm in a much more grounded or balanced space to come and be like, so then I won't even necessarily bring it to them or bring it in that way. I may be more in a space where, okay, I can hear you and not get offended. Because I've had men come to me and just say, I've got no one to speak to. It just breaks my heart, you know, because the same way, like I said, we're carrying the same narratives, but they play out different to us. The same way that we sisters, yeah, we feel like everyone expects us to carry everything. They actually feel the same. The explanation is different, but they feel the same, but it is not helping any of us to try and be like, well, I'm carrying more than you. So all this 50-50 business, like who is that helping? Who is that helping? Do you see what I mean? So it's tough, sisters, it's tough, but really try and find I love this, whether it's a quote or this part, it's a fictional book called The Queen's Code by Alison Armstrong. Alison A. Armstrong. It's fictional, but I love how much it deals with this dynamic between men and women. But there's a part in it where she says something like, to ask somebody to do something you know that they cannot do is cruel. And so sometimes I think that's why I say that like your spouse can not be, you know, but as we're talking about your brothers, there's some things that rightly or wrongly, because maybe I'm, what's the word, undermining his capacity. There's some things that I don't expect my partner to know or be able to do because it's not his place. I've got my sisters for that. So why don't I go to... I may tell him more from a perspective of, okay, this is what I'm going through, but I'm not expecting him to now come and solve anything or whatever. It's more like an FYI. But if I go to him and, you know, tell him all this stuff and if we go with, you know, general stereotypes, whatever it's like, if they're in a fix-it mode and it's like, that's not what I need, unless I've told him that I just need to listen, he's not expected to know that he just needs to listen.

SPEAKER_00: 44:48

You

SPEAKER_03: 44:48

know, sometimes I think we... can make things difficult for ourselves just unknowingly you know i think a lot of this stuff is actually quite we just don't know like lack of information so when you have the information how can we do things um differently and where are we trying to get to like i said right or happy you know me personally and it's not for everyone like i find apologizing very easy because i'm just like what is the best for the greater good? That there is a balance to be had in terms of, no, don't always silence yourself because then obviously you're going to build up your own resentment. But in this certain circumstance, who benefits if I'm right in this situation? Is it actually going to, or is it better to just say, oh yeah, okay, I can see that. Let's now move on. Do you see what I mean? So that's a journey I think we're on as Black women, as Black men. I'm so happy to see more of, like I said, the Black men creating those spaces for themselves. But the one thing I said is that the same way, because women have done for me, they've been doing the work longer and now we are actually, I think, starting or being able to hold them. I said that we sisters, we actually also need, like I said to someone the other day, I'd love someone to do a black woman venting room, but the men are the facilitators because we need that father figure. Like we need that as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I said, so everybody and their intersection, the sisters need to be together by themselves. The brothers need to be together by themselves. Sisters need to listen to our brothers. Brothers need to listen to our sisters. That's how then we have healthy community. Like we need all those intersections.

SPEAKER_00: 46:32

It's interesting. There was a guy, he was a white guy, actually. And he said that he feels he's living the American dream because he's got a beautiful wife, two beautiful children. They've got a lovely house in the country. He's got a good job. They spend loads of time together, but he doesn't feel fulfilled. And he said... It's because we've been sold the idea that us breaking off and insulating and separating off into little families is what everyone should do. But now he's lost friendship and community. And there's also an author called Simon Sinek, the one who wrote- I love him. I love him too, yeah. And he's writing a book right now on friendship. And the book is, well, I haven't read the book. The book's not even out, but- He was talking about the book and he was talking about friendship and he was saying there's people that talk about relationships, how you build a relationship, how you build a community with your business, how you build a company, but there's no one that teaches you how to be a good friend. And when things go wrong in your relationships, they go wrong in your parenting, they go wrong in your business, that's who you need. You need friends and friends who don't feel like you're attacking them when you express. are the ones that can help you through. I know through the worst times I've been through, there are people that I have called and I've just spoken and they've said the most amazing things to me like, no, just let it all out, sis. I'm just here to listen. And then my brother is the best because I know he ain't listening because I've seen my brother, when my mum was still with us, My mum would call my brother, and my mum's going off, and she goes off on tangents. She started the phone call talking about one thing. She's gone off and started telling him off about something he did when he was 16, and then she comes back and asks about how the children... And the whole time, he's got the phone on loudspeak next to him while he's working, and he's like, mm-hmm. yes mommy yes mommy yeah and that's what he does with me as well and that's all I need I just need like you said I need that energy to go somewhere I know it I need to know it's going to someone who's receiving it without judgment and that's what friendship is for but like you said not everyone Not everyone has been taught how to be discerning about how to find a friend. And that's why I just think your venting rooms are the best thing ever because you solve all the problems. Not only do you solve all the problems, but you also encourage us to create a new paradigm in how we function in relationships and in life and the relationships we have with everyone and in life where it's, you know, like you said, There's more to your healing than you just sharing with the person that hurt you. You have to do the self-work. You have to write things down sometimes. You have to vent onto a voice note. You can come to our safe space. No one can judge you in this space. Then you can go and deal with the challenge. Once you've allowed everything to come out, then you can re-ascertain what was I actually angry about? Am I still angry about it now? Have I been given good advice? Listening to other people vent, listening to other challenges people have. Because I know for a fact, I've heard people share with me challenges they have, which are exactly the same as the challenges I have. But once I hear it from someone else, I'm like, no, that don't make no sense. Now you don't make no sense. You don't, that don't make no sense, sis. And I'm like, but that's exactly how you thought and reacted. I'm like, Leah, that don't make no sense. And I so want people to access your venting rooms and just get that support, which I think is where like one of the key things we're missing when it said like it takes a village. A lot of us have lost that village and you've created a space that's like international. I was on your venting room yesterday and I was listening to a brother so openly and vulnerably share his his challenges in parenting, ask for advice on them. And as soon as he was saying it, we're in two different parts of the world, everything he said, I agreed with him. I just came away feeling so much more connected just by listening to him. So what I would ask if you could please share is, some advice that you would give for, I mean, the first thing I'm gonna tell everyone is to just access Naz's venting rooms and she's got different venting rooms. Please access the venting rooms. Cause I feel like this could be the mental health tool that we've all just needed for such a long time. So definitely do that. Can you give some advice to sisters who are listening who can resonate with anything that we've been saying, some tools that they can use in their life now or some advice you can give them so that they can improve their mental and emotional health with the kind of things that you do? Okay.

SPEAKER_03: 51:39

So I guess there's a number of things. Some of you may not feel that you have community, but what we were talking about earlier, if you can find, even if it's one person that you consider your venting space or the person that's not going to use something against you, but you talk to them and say, listen, I'm going to try this thing now where sometimes I just need to offload things, whether you speak in person or just the voice clip thing, because that The person doesn't even have to be at the other end at that time, but you know that you can leave a voice clip, say whatever you need to say, and then you tell them, I don't need a response. Or sometimes what I do with my friends is like, tell me what's obvious to you. Like, is there anything that I'm not seeing in this thing? Because if I'm in a learning space, I will ask that. So yeah, who is your person or your two people? So create like your own little space. I would say, The things that we take for granted. So when they talk, when people talk about self-care, we know it's become, you know, almost fad-ish, but literally the example that you gave Leah of the guy that moved away and he got married and he lost fulfillment. The thing that we often lose is our individuality. That happened to me. It's like, yeah, wife, mom, lawyer, blah, blah, blah, blah. No, no. Like, you know, you lose who are you? And remember, you only have all these other things because there's a you in the first place. So you must carve out time. When I say time, I'm talking like five minutes. If your thing is singing, I like to go on a small karaoke. So sometimes I'll just put on the thing and I'll just be singing or whatever. And, you know, the resonance lifts you up. Whatever's your thing, five minutes, even if it's a walk, punch, whatever is, if it's physical, maybe you're a Sudoku person, like make, find that time. something little every day like every if it's two minutes to hum your favorite song find something and we're doing that and telling ourselves this as is as important as me feeding myself today like physical food we need to feed ourselves the spiritual food like the thing that makes us feel like us so that's a must it's not a nice to have find that thing five minutes ten minutes and don't try and go off on one and be like yeah I need to dedicate an hour and then you find out that you never have the hour like start small this week today it's two minutes tomorrow it's five minutes the next day maybe it's 10 minutes just find your thing um And then some of it is about allowing yourself to be human. Like I said, for those of you who are seeking to learn, grow, evolve, what we can do sometimes that I've learned all this stuff. And then what we do is we kind of almost put ourselves up on a pedestal. Like I should know better than this. I should blah, blah, blah. We're still on the journey. We still have ego. We still have wounds. So it's like, Oh, that actually was not cool. All right. I have to, Eat some humble pie. If there's apologies to be made, whatever, I'm human. Okay. I've seen that. Right. Maybe next time I'll spot it quicker. Like allow yourself to be human as long as you're still looking to grow and evolve. But we're going to mess up. We tell our children the same thing. We're going to mess up. Allow yourself to be human. And if you really want to go there, it's like when the emotions come, when you have time, you can be your best interrogator. Like, what was all that about? Like, just sit with it. It's like, I was so annoyed. What was I actually annoyed about? Ask yourself questions. You might be surprised by your own answers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 55:10

If you could leave the, because we're going to be coming to the end of our wonderful discussion now. Thank you for your time today, sis. If you could leave our sisters with a message, what would that be?

SPEAKER_03: 55:20

Sisters, you are phenomenal, but please don't try and be the village. What I mean by that is you cannot, as awesome, as powerful, as strong, as dedicated, as intelligent, as beautiful as you are, you cannot be all things to all people. Caregivers need caregivers. Do you understand? Coaches need coaches. Mentors need mentors. The world is set up that we coexist. So Build your community. It could be two people, three people. There's no weakness in needing support. We have support to remind us that we're human and we're in community. Like, please don't try and be the village all on your own. Create your own village. It doesn't have to be your DNA, but it would be nice if you have your biological family, but create your own village and especially create sisterhood. Why do I say specifically create sisterhood? Because our sisters are our reflections. If we have problems with our sisters, we have problems with ourselves.

SPEAKER_00: 56:27

Thank you, sis. Can you just share before we go the mission you are on with the work that you're doing? Where do you see this growing and evolving into what is it that you want to achieve in the world with the work that you're doing? What can we expect to see as part of that as well?

SPEAKER_03: 56:46

I simply want to help with the work that's being done to rebalance the energy in the world. Literally, it's that. Once we rebalance the feminine energy with our masculine energy, that's, I guess, on the mental, the spiritual plane. But why do I say that? Because, again, lots of people are hurt. Lots of people are hurting, you know. But the time is moving. We can see that, you know. And so what I really want is everybody, the ideal is for everyone to feel fully expressed in who they are without harming anyone. So whatever I can do to assist you to be the human being and the spiritual being that you have come here to be, I'm here for it. And I'll... connect with and relate to other people who are just seeking to uplift everyone. Because as I say, it's like, we rise together. You know, my sister does well, I do well. My boys do well, I do well. They would say me, maybe me first. But the point is, it's like, what do they say? It's like teaching is like twice learning. So if

SPEAKER_01: 57:54

I serve

SPEAKER_03: 57:54

this person, I'm serving myself. Like we serving other people, we're always serving ourselves, but from a holistic point of view.

SPEAKER_01: 58:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 58:04

Thank you, sis. So again, I just think everyone needs to join the, or just try out, just experience. If you don't already have that, and thankfully, I know a lot of women do already have that, and maybe just hearing this is going to help them to reactivate it and, you know, re-engage in the sisterhood that they already have. But can you let people know how they can find you, how they can find your coaching services, how they can join one of the circles? And again, you know, we are a black women's podcast, but we did, you know, acknowledging also that if you are in a like loving relationship or you have like with a black man, and if you have children, if you have a husband and their mental health is very important to you, because, you know, a lot of black women are empathetic and if their significant other or the men in their life are empathetic, out of balance and they need support and they want to help them. And you also know you're not the best person to help them. You can direct them to the male groups. And again, a lot of us that are listening are parents. So the parenting venting groups, which I think was so wonderful to be part of, even though it was for a very short time. Can you please let everyone know how they can participate in

SPEAKER_03: 59:20

all of them? Thank you so much. So the easiest thing on Instagram, the handles are blackwomenventingroom, not women's, blackwomenventingroom, because on Instagram there's also blackwomenventing, which is something else, but at blackwomenventingroom, at blackmenventingroom, at blackparentsventingroom. So that's how you can find them on Instagram. And it basically gives you the flyers of previous sessions that we've had. And in the bio, you'll find the form to join the WhatsApp group. Come in, join the WhatsApp group, attend a session. If it's not for you, you can leave. We don't... are very key. And when I say we, because I created them, but I never hold space by myself. So in the Black Women Venting Room, we are four facilitators. In the Men Venting Room, we're three facilitators. And then in the Parents Venting Room, we're about five facilitators. And it's not a hierarchy. What I say is that the venting room is as much for the facilitators as it is for everyone that comes in. So we're community. We're circle in those things. So that's where you can find on... on Instagram. For my coaching services, it's a bit.ly. It's bit.ly or bit.ly. slash, and then it's Rediscover Yourself Mum. So that one's targeted at, yeah, Rediscover Yourself Mum. But I think you can actually find that link at my Naa Amele for President Instagram handle. But thank you so much for asking. And yeah, every, what I tend to say is whatever we're doing in those rooms, it's a microcosm of what's happening in the world. So everyone, and the times are not going to be convenient for everyone. So I'm so glad you said that if even hearing this sisters will re-engage in their spaces, create the spaces, elevate the spaces, because the more work that we do in our separate spaces, collectively, it's going to help all of us.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:20

Yeah. Okay, so before we finish, we have to touch on not a life of president.

SPEAKER_03: 1:01:28

Please. How do I do this briefly? So Nga Mele for President is one of the reasons that I've relocated to Ghana. So I'm a UK born Ghanaian, born to a Ghanaian mother, a late father. And I've always had this affinity with Ghana. Like, I was here in my toddler years, but then I didn't come back until my 20. When I started, let's say, my self-development journey, when I got to, like, my lowest point, I started getting, like, visions about, oh, I want to do something in Africa. Oh, I want to do something in Ghana. What am I going to do? And then I literally got a call from someone to say, oh, they're working, campaigning for women. I should come home to my– I should come to Ghana and– run to lead the country. Yes, exactly. However, because I had literally had these visions, like I literally had one where it's like all my ancestors, all the matriarchs on my mother's side, they were like, oh, you know, we're all together. I just said that I've got no idea how this is supposed to work, but yeah, I'll do it. You know, and it intersected beautifully with the fact that, you know, my boys were at an age. It's fantastic. Let them come back, immerse in their heritage and the other conversation about, you know, how raising, I don't know, healthy black men in London or the UK, whatever. So it felt that bit. And then my partner is born and bred in Ghana as well. So it's like all these different things, all roads were leading to Ghana. So the presidency is about, Yes, I'm on the path to become the president of Ghana. However, it is hand in hand with encouraging other sisters to step into those political spaces because the women are the majority of the country and nothing is gonna change if the women are not in a good space because we're to a certain extent, the reproducers, not only of the children, but we grow the land. We do all these things. So it's another way to get that feminine energy, especially the mothering, nurturing energy in the spaces where we can make the decisions that everybody's good.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:33

I love that so much. I've just seen your page, not Amelie Sante Omar, not Amelie for president. I'm going to share all your links on the show notes. Thank you so much for being with us here today. Can you just share any final words before we wrap up,

SPEAKER_03: 1:03:53

Bev? It's just really lovely to be back speaking to you, Leah. I always love our conversations. They're all very insightful. And I just encourage everyone. There's so much information in the world. There is so much information in the world. Let's encourage ourselves to pay attention to what is really going to benefit us in our, I guess, in our little individual families, us as community. And what I mean by that is let's try and be a bit less quick to buy at the oh, all the women are this, all the men are this, all the black people like this. It's like, stop, let's stop thinking about what's right and wrong. What serves us? What serves our highest and best? And you in your everyday life, what serves your highest and best? And if you are the, let's say the main provider in whatever form provision takes for you, serving your highest and best is gonna serve everybody who is around you. So do that.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:57

Thank you. Thank you so much, sis. Thank you everyone for being here and coming to the end of another episode of Naturally You Radio. We look forward to, I look forward to bringing another amazing guest to the show next week. Have a wonderful week. Take care and stay healthy.